Acquired Experience

“In considering how a pilot’s job description has changed from the hands-on era to the current era of programming and monitoring computers, old timers suggest that today’s pilots better be careful or they might program themselves out of a job. I don’t think that there are many old aviators from the hands-on era who envy the pilots of these aerial transport yawners. There are a multitude of pilots flying the jets today who haven’t had the privilege of getting scared. The greatness of an airline doesn’t come from its large size, or all the updated equipment. It’s the employees who make the best of what they have and dedicate their hearts and soul to making it work. That’s what makes a resplendent airline.”–The Golden Years of Flying by Capt Tex Searle

In my career with PIA as a captain and co-pilot, I flew with 144 captains on three different aircraft. It was a great opportunity to acquire hands on experience which is one of  the problems facing commercial aviation; lack of experience for the role assigned. In North America, an airline co-pilot flies with one captain for some length of time which in my opinion robs him of worthwhile experience imparted through a change of captains. I have compiled a list of the seniors who taught me to stay alive:

Fokker F-27 Captains (Rawalpindi Base) August 1969–Oct 1970; August 1975–March 1976

  1. Amin Akhtar
  2. Abbas
  3. Fida Muhammad Khan (son is with Qatar Airways)
  4. Manzoor Chaudhry ex-PAF Transport C130
  5. Masud Ahmad: ex-PAF
  6. Nayyar Mohsin, Flt. Lt,  ex PAF Instructor Risalpur
  7. Osman Khan: ex PAF
  8. Syed Haider Rahat: ex-PAF (two sons are working in aviation; one is A300  captain (Sarwath) with Qatar Airways, and another is a B747 (Nusrat) captain till last known)
  9. Mushtaq Shariff: ex PAF
  10. Shaukat Ali: ex-PAF, Flt Lt., served on deputation on F-27 with Royal Air Maroc
  11. Syed Ahmad Hussain Rizvi (son was working in PIA as a pilot till last known)

Red line are deceased

Fokker F-27 Captains (Lahore Base), Nov. 1970–Aug. 1971

Deceased

  1. Anwarullah, formerly Lahore Flying Club–Fokker crash Rawat, Rawalpindi 6/8/70
  2. Akbar Afridi
  3. Mubashir Ahmed-deceased Fokker crash 1971 war
  4. Muhammad Zaki (son is flying for some airline)
  5. T.H. Naqvi, Squadron Leader, ex-PAF Transport
  6. Saadat Ali
  7. Shahid Ali
  8. Zahid Hussain-brother of Capt. Hamid Hussain (Mehrabad fame)
  9. Waheed Hasan Jaswal

Alive

  1. Fazluddin Haqqi (son is a pilot with PIA, Rehan Haqqi)
  2. Mansoor E. Khan
  3. Mansoor Malik
  4. Munir, ex-PAF  Flt.Lt., F-104
  5. Mohammad Ashraf Zuberi;
  6. Ashraf, left for Biman 1971, Bangladesh Airlines.

Fokker F-27  Captains (Karachi Base), September 1971–October 1973; December 1974–July 1975

Deceased

  1. Muhammad Akmal (General Secretary PALPA. Led a pilot strike during Ziaul Haq’s time)
  2. S.U.R. Bokhari
  3. F.H.K. Ghori (ex-PAF, Flt. Lt. Instructor Risalpur; CFI PIA Flying Training Academy 1967-69)
  4. Humayun (left for Libyan Airlines 1972)
  5. T. Mannan ex-PAF, went on deputation to Malaysia
  6. N.D. Khan
  7. E. Rabbani (ex-PAF, Sqn Ldr)
  8. Raziuddin
  9. Sajid Quraishi
  10. Agha Ahmed Teherany
  11. Mian Shahid Waseem
  12. Wajid Ali Shah

Alive

  1. Amjad Faizi
  2. Aqeel Ahmed Hashmi
  3. Ansar Siddiqui
  4. A.Q. Bhurgiri
  5. Shahnawaz Dara (later DFO)
  6. Mir Rashid (status unknown; left PIA a long time ago)
  7. Mansoor Moghal
  8. Hasan Zaheer (ex-PAF, Wing Comm., B-57)

707/720 Captains, November 1973–November 1974; May 1976–January 1977; May 1980–August 1987

Deceased

  1. Kazi Masud (DFO)
  2. Hashmat
  3. Omair; Mir (ex-PAF Transport)
  4. Baqir
  5. Akber Afridi
  6. Muhammad Akmal(General Secretary PALPA)
  7. Azmat (ex-PAF, Sqn Ldr); Bashar
  8. Fida Muhammad
  9. Hamid Hussain (Mehrabad fame)
  10. Hameed Malik
  11. Iftekhar Janjua (deceased Kathmandu crash of Airbus A300)
  12. Imam-uddin Khwaja
  13. Muhammad Ishaq (DFO)- son is a doctor and was a pilot in PIA
  14. Maqsood (ex-Squadron Ldr, PAF)
  15. Manzoor Chaudhry (ex-PAF, Flt Lt.)
  16. Nasir Rana (ex-PAF Transport)
  17. Raonaq
  18. E. Rabbani (ex-PAF)
  19. Sami Ahmed
  20. Sheikh Rashid;
  21. Sadiq Ali
  22. Sajid Quraishi
  23. Shahab
  24. Agha Ahmed Teherany
  25. Shafiq Quadri
  26. Kadri
  27. B Ahmed
  28. A.T.M.A. Hussain
  29. M. Salim
  30. Mussawar Sangdila
  31. Mushtaq Cheema
  32. M.I. Younis
  33. Nisar Chughtai
  34. Wajid Ali Shah
  35. Syed Sultan Zaman (DFO)

Alive

  1. Mahmood Ahmad
  2. Shamim
  3. Amin Akhtar
  4. Najam ul Huda
  5. Reginald Norman Luther (retd. from Singapore Airlines)
  6. M.R. Mirza
  7. Abbas
  8. Mohammad Afzal
  9. Anis Khan
  10. Ashfaq Hussain
  11. Aqeel Ahmad Hashmi
  12. Shahnawaz Dara (later DFO)
  13. Aijaz Dodhy
  14. Ejaz ul Haq (retd. from Emirates B777)
  15. Farrukh Naqi
  16. Morgan Felix
  17. Ghiasuddin
  18. Fazluddin Haqqi
  19. Idrees Ahmed (President PALPA, DFO)
  20. J.M. Quraishi (retd. from Singapore Airlines B747)
  21. Nasir Pervaiz Junaidi DFO, civilian POW in 1971
  22. Khalid Iqbal
  23. Khursheed Cheema
  24. Riaz Khokhar
  25. Syed Kamal (later DFO)
  26. M.S.K. Lodhi
  27. Munir Khan
  28. Mahfooz
  29. Mirza.Rafiq Mazhar
  30. Mansoor Moghal
  31. Mansoor Elahi Khan
  32. M. Zubair
  33. Nayyar Mohsin
  34. Safdar Nana
  35. Osman Yunus
  36. Pervaiz Saeed
  37. Musheer Ahmad Suri
  38. Shuja ul Hasan
  39. Shaukat Ali
  40. Tahir Rashid Mir
  41. Tariq
  42. Zia Mohammad.

Former BOAC/BA, B707 captains with PIA  1974-80 (status unknown)

  1. Easton
  2. Lovelace
  3. Drayton
  4. Siegel
  5. Stille-Lancaster pilot in WW2
  6. Banfield
  7. Blake
  8. Gingles
  9. Williams.

747 Captains–March 1977–April 1980

Deceased

  1. Anwar Khan
  2. Ashfaq
  3. A.A. Aziz
  4. Ahmed Ali
  5. Bashir Akhtar
  6. Chaudhry
  7. Hameed Malik
  8. M. Ishaq, DFO
  9. Haider Ali Fazil
  10. Imam-uddin Khwaja
  11. Khusro
  12. K.R. Khan
  13. Mobin
  14. M.I. Rehman
  15. Mian Aziz, DFO
  16. Mobin; N.H. Naqvi-murdered by domestic help
  17. M.F. Nasir-road accident in Lahore as passenger after retirement
  18. Rahim;
  19. Raja Ziaullah
  20. Muhammad Zaki
  21. M.M. Salehjee
  22. Shaukat Hussain Khan, DFO
  23. Siraj Ali
  24. Salim Akbar.
  25. Saeed Akhtar
  26. A.A. Shah

Alive

  1. S.S.Akbar
  2. Afaq Rizvi
  3. Donald Frazer
  4. Khalid Ahmad
  5. M.M. Mahmood
  6. Saleemul Haq

TTL Captains 144; 27 captains were with me on two equipment.

16 thoughts on “Acquired Experience

  1. Asaulakum sir . I thing at the age 8 in
    1974 I was on a PIA 707 from Lahore
    To London with my mother . I remember a I long haired
    White complexed young man in the
    Right hand seat .
    I gather this was capt m salim … am
    I correct ????

    • Captain M. Salim was my senior in PIA. He could not be sitting on the right seat on a 707 in 1974 as he was a qualified captain on that aircraft at that time and able to sit on the left hand pilot seat in the cockpit.

    • Thank you for your reply
      To my question … I met
      Capt abdullah baig at Heathrow in 1981 and there was a British pilot in the room next door this is why I have asked you this question .
      I was seeing capt baig over taking up flying but to my subprise he suggested a
      Flight engineer course .
      He was a lovely man who I meet with my father at PIA
      Flight ops T3 in Dec 1981.
      As you know capt baig has
      Since passed away in 1987

  2. Capt. Abdullah was given a ground job at London Heathrow Airport after his retirement from flying. That is all I know about him after he left Karachi. I am aware of foreign pilots and flight engineers serving in PIA around the time I flew in command on the 707, in fact I flew with five or six ex-BOAC captains who were in PIA before I became a captain on that aircraft. I also flew with non-Pakistani flight engineers in 1980-81 probably.

      • The last time I flew on a PIA 707 was in august 1989 320 C from Karachi to
        Lahore . The aircraft was being tossed about in flight en route to Lahore it seemed the aircraft was sinking like going downwards completely dark outside . I started to hold hands with my mother or stupidly my uncle but the aircraft settled off .
        After I we started getting off the 707 I asked the flight engineer I presume he was a FE how about how turbulent the flight was I got a zero reply from him.
        The last PIA 707s that used to come into Heathrow as I remember was two cargo types AP AXG. AP BBK as I remember I alway used to wait for there approach to Heathrow between
        1997 /1999.
        Unfortunately did not get the chance to load unload cargo on these because I was in another job . But between 2010 until 2015 I was loading unloading cargo on PIA 777 AP BHV. AP BHW
        AP BID. Plus BGL BGJ AP BGK
        Etc I did one PIA 747 367 AP BGG which had bad engine problems when we commenced a pushback at Heathrow in 2011 one of the engines were not spinning or starting .
        I feel PIA have many maintenance issues on the 777 .. drive systems don’t work … load sheets can be very upsetting were human remains are loaded into hold 5 and 300 baggage are put on top of them .. humans remains are put on cargo pallets with heavy cargo put on them which I feel is in human .
        To me PIA is not going in the right direction

    • The loading of the PIA 777 ie the way
      The containers and pallets are loaded what nil fits are must be in the hold if they are any .
      The amount of loose baggage is loaded in hold five etc ie is faxed by Karachi and was never done by Danata … this is the direct reason why we would question that there are 2 or 4 nil fits maybe in the front and rear cargo holds and there putting 300 baggage into hold 5.
      PIA have very odd loading instructions which is making a easy job hard for the appointed ground handlers. The guys that I used to work for sometimes tried to get away from doing the PIA because the hard work that was involved even though the white guys were pretty hard working then the Pakistani and Indians who were extremely lazy .
      However sir I have never seen any pilot come into the cargo hold and question on cargo that is being loaded like ie human remains or question certain things on pallets condition and bin conditions that might worry him .
      However the ramp operation is donkey work if the containers are demaged or pallets are uneven etc or there is no drive system working PIA have no interest in safety .
      Tommrow you might find dogs and cats mixed up with human remains in hold 5 … veg being put with again with human remains etc .

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